Sunday Sessions 034 :    Property Cycles

Sunday Sessions 034 : Property Cycles


Hi folks, Rob Flux here from
Property Developer Network. Had a couple of technical
issues a moment or two ago. Hopefully we’ve now resolved those. Coming to you again live
for another Sunday session. This week’s topic is property cycles,
otherwise known as property clock, It’s gonna be talking to you about
how the property clock works, how you can use that as,
as a property investor and also how you can use
that as a property developer. So my humble apologies to those who
of you who were logged on a moment ago and had those technical challenges,
but hopefully they are now resolved. Now before we jump into the session today, gonna give you a little
bit of around the grounds and what is happening in and around the
property developer network community. Our next meetup is in Melbourne,
which is on the December the 7th. And the topic there is buyer’s agents and how they’re able to assist
you in the deal finding process, in Brisbane our next
meeting is on December 21st. Now as that is so close to
Christmas that is going to be purely a Christmas party, only with drinks. And Sydney will be January the 25th, because we’ve already
had the Christmas party for those guys already had
the last one for the year. But for the both Melbourne and Brisbane, we will be using that
as our Christmas party. Sydney has already had their
Christmas party, so hi everybody, can see a few people coming on.
Peter, Shelly, and a few others. So, welcome folks and thank
you for joining me. Now the property cycle or property
clock as it’s otherwise known, there are a number of different
reasons for using the property clock. Now property clock is
something that market analysts or people that actually study
the economics of the market tend to use as an indicator of where
we are actually in the market cycle. Typically it’s used by property investors and it’s used in order to time
the market as to how to win, how to get into the market in
order to actually understand whether or not we’re actually coming
into an upmarket or downmarket et cetera. But that’s also used for property
developers to actually understand the risk that is in the market
and inherent in the market. So, if you understand those elements, you can then factor that
into your feasibilities. And if you know that you’re in an upswing,
then you know there might be some, some cream on top of your profit. If
you know that you’re in a downswing, you need to make sure you’ve got a little
bit more contingency in the process. And, so I’m looking at this more from a
property developer’s perspective, but I am going to talk to how property
investors use it and how, I guess the, the property economists
out there actually, document and articulate the process. so I can Carol saying hello,
good day mate, how are you? it’s been a little while since we’ve
actually seen you, mate. So welcome back. Now phases of the property cycle. So I guess when we think of a cycle, it’s generally represented in
the form of a property clock and the clock is I guess 12 o’clock
being the top of the market, six o’clock being the bottom of
the market. Now unlike a clock, whilst the, the hands on the, the, the clock are actually representing
where we are in the process, it’s not linear. So the fact that you
happen to be at the top of the market, does not mean that
halfway through the cycle you’re going to be at the
bottom of the market again it’s not that linear, what
tends to happen is that, the process from slumping
happens quite quickly, then it still sits at the bottom
of the clock for quite some time and then takes its while
to get to a certain phase within there and then takes off again.
So if I talk to some of those phases, I, that it will make a little bit more sense. So I assuming that we’re
starting at the top of the clock, which is the top of the
market, the very first thing is that we start to go through a slump
phase. The slump phase occurs, as a result of over supply in
the market. Okay, due to I guess, too much activity of builders, developers,
et cetera, at, at the end of a boom. So the boom has, has hit,
everybody has responded and trying to jam as much into
the market as humanly possible. and it gets to the point of
saturation or over supply. And then at that point that the
slump starts to happen, okay. When that starts to
happen, property prices, stop growing and in
some cases will decline, slowly initially and then, and
then we’ll start to speed up, new home buyers and that sort of
things. They’re going to find themselves in a little bit of trouble at
this point because at this point, the valuations are going
to start to drop off, from where they thought
that they were going to be, especially if they’ve got delayed
settlements in the process. So it’s quite important, that people actually understand
where they are in the market, when they’re starting
to do, to, to purchase. so goes all the way down. so going
through a couple of different elements. So at, about one thirty, this is the kind of the start
of the decline at three o’clock. you’re very firmly in a declining market and it starts to accelerate quite
quickly once it gets to the three o’clock mark. when it gets to about the five
o’clock markets close to the bottom, but not quite there, and six
o’clock is the bottom of the market. Now it tends to sit at the bottom
of the market for quite some time. Now they talk about the
property clock being a cycle that takes anywhere between
7 and 10 years, depending
upon how and where you are but most of that time,
I’m going to say about 70% of that time is somewhere in
and around the bottom of the market or the start of the recovery
phase. So it’s, you know, it’s not always on the up swing and
it’s not always on the down swing. And what you tend to find is that when
you’re trying to time, the market, not much happens for quite some time. And then when it does happen,
it happens quite quickly. So when it starts to get
off, the bottom of the market with starts to get into
the recovery phrase, you probably at the seven or eight
o’clock mark at the start of the recovery and it’s trying to build momentum at
this point now where it’s in that upward phase. Okay, you, you can start to see vacancy rates
start to slow rent start to rise, property values start to increase,
but they’re not increasing, by a huge amount at the moment. But
when you’re in that middle of that, you, you’re generally getting, to the
point where housing affordability, is still within range but starting
to accelerate, away from people. And so the investment cycles
and that sort of thing, start to move against people very quickly once it actually gets
into the rising market. Now the rising market hits at
around the nine o’clock mark. and then from there the race to the 12
o’clock tends to happen quite quickly in comparison to how long it’s taken for
the rest of the market to get all the way around. and you will generally find that depending
upon the area that you’re in, that, that rise will have happen in some
way between 12 to 18 months typically, before it hits the peak of the market. And they might sit at the peak of the
market for about the six month mark. Now all of this is an
estimate, I guess there’s no, exact science behind it. It really
comes down to analyzing the market and seeing all the indicators which
I’m going to talk about in the moment, and making sure that
you’re actually assessing how and where you are in that process. Now as I said, the clock is
typically used by investors. Okay. So an investor, we’ll
have a look at the market and try to pick the bottom of the market
to get in and the peak of the market to get out, or the peak of the market
to try and refinance and, and, pull a whole bunch of equity out of
their process. And if they’re smart, they’ll sit on the sidelines while they wait for it to drop to
the bottom of the market again. Now the challenge is that
it’s not like a crystal ball. It’s not, it’s not an exact
science. And so you have to be very, very careful in trying to, use the clock as the only indicator that
you are trying to go to invest in the market. Now as a property developer
you want to be very careful in I guess using these indicators. Also to make sure that
you’re factoring in a, I guess a level of risk into your
project depending upon where you are. Okay. So I can see that questions
got, Hayden, a question. Where are we now on the property
clock? I will come to that Hayden, in a couple of moments mate. So
appreciate, the question, but I’ll, I’ve got a little bit of, content to go through and then I’ll
come back to that one. I promise. Now the, I forgot where I’ve
lost my point. There is, but I promise you Hayden that
I will come back to you mate. I guess while I’m at it though, a good time to actually be
asking questions because, there’s always a little
bit of a delay between you guys asking questions and the, the
responses coming through. So, please, please do that. Now what impacts how and where we
are actually on the property cycle. So there’s a number of
things that go into this and a number of external
factors will impact the, the clock and where we are on the clock. So interest rates and the
lending environment, some of, some of those things that will
impact quite significantly. So where the lending environment is
quite difficult to actually get funds, as it has been in the past with a whole
bunch of regulations in and around upper. then you’ll find that because
people can’t get into the market, then that starts to be an indicator
that we’re having challenges and we’re starting to
go in a downward cycle. where interest rates are starting
to go lower and lower and lower. Then that is a good indicator that, I guess the government is
trying to invigorate the market, and trying to kickstart things. So when you’re watching, I guess the interest rates
and that lending environment, you’ll notice that, relatively recently
upper has made a whole bunch of changes in and around that to try and
make it a little bit easier to, to get some funding, and also
they’ve been dropping the, I guess the reserve bank’s been
dropping the interest rates to try and kickstart the economy.
So those things are good indicators. Jobs and jobs growth is also a very
good indicator as to how and what’s happening. If there are no jobs in
the market or if, you know, if the, I guess the unemployment level is low, that tends to be a little bit of an
indicator that we’re on a downward trends. But if the unemployment rate is,
I guess in the high range or, or I guess very low unemployment, that’s an indicator that we would be
on an upward swing relatively soon. Population growth is also
a great indicator as to where people are coming from and you need, when you’re looking at population growth,
there’s a number of things to look at. So it’s net migration. So there’s always
population that moves out in an area, population that moves into an area and there’s also natural
population growth as well. So, people that move in to the area
come from both, interstate. They also come from overseas. So when we look at those indicators
and have a look at that net population, that will be a good indicator where, and what that does is it
increases the demand on the area and when the demand outweighs the supply, that’s when the property prices
tend to start to go up. Now, some other indicators to be cognizant of wherever there are major infrastructure
projects that are happening now, these are generally state or
local government trying to do. things like road upgrades, train lines. you know, giant hospitals, universities, all those sorts of things where
those big infrastructure spins will actually create jobs in the area
by creating jobs in the area that can m ake, creates demand, creates
employment, et cetera, et cetera. And so though where you can see
those spendings starting to happen, it’s a good indicator that I guess the
market will potentially be shifting off the bottom, I guess relatively soon. One of the other things to be cognizant
of is the fact that global markets though, can impact you
significantly. And whilst, whilst the the local government
and the state government and federal government
are trying to do things, locally to try and kickstart the economy, global markets will quite often do things, I guess outside of their
control and outside of their, I guess predictability.
And so things like the GFC, will quite often cause challenges
that were not anticipated. And that can actually cause the
clock to sometimes go backwards, where you think it’s
actually going up in a cycle. We’ll actually get it to actually
drop off, if that makes sense. Now, there are lots of people who put
versions of the property clock out there and I say versions of the property clock
because it’s actually all presented in, in a number of different ways. And they pulling data from roughly
the same core kinds of sources, but they tend to interpret
a little bit differently. so that the property clock
is not an exact science and because it’s trying to crystal
ball what is actually happening. So some key market people out
there if you’re looking to, to see how and what we are
doing out in the market. Some key people to watch would be
Michael McKusick. he does some, some great work. Dr. Andrew Wilson does
some great work as well. Herron Todd-White have, one that
they released quarterly, which is, is very much in that clock format. Core logic,the people
who bring you RP data also have a whole bunch of
stuff that they put together. Australian property
monitor also does stuff and DSR data is a great place to actually
go and get the raw data for yourself. If you want to try and put some of these
indicators together in your own right to, to try and build your own property
cycle. Now the thing with property cycle is that there are markets within
markets within markets. Okay. So when we look at that,
there are state markets, there are regional markets, there are
capital cities and or regional cities. then there are suburbs and then
each one of those markets then have, sub categories. So what is the housing market
doing and the unit market doing? So back to Hayden’s question, when
you say what is the market doing? Well, depends on where you are. So, you may have one area of the country which is doing fantastically well because
jobs are up, interest rates are down, infrastructure spend is
high, et cetera, et cetera. And the other half of the
country is doing, quite poorly. You may have one area where the
housing market is doing really well, but the unit market is not doing really
well. And so it, when people try to say, Hey, what’s the market doing? it’s
kinda how long’s a piece of string and, if you’re trying to use just the,
just the indicators, on the clock, sometimes they’re not quite granular
enough. They’re a good guide to say, Hey, should I be looking in this area? But they shouldn’t be the only thing
that you actually using in order to, make your decisions. Okay. So some
of the, some of the challenges are, is the fact that it is
trying to predict the future. I guess there’s an inherent level
of risk that, sometimes the, the anticipated economic market drivers
don’t necessarily end up going that way. And I’m going to talk to
some of those market drivers. and indicators that you’re
going to look for in a second and so it’s important that you
start to look at these things for yourselves in your local region, and make it very localized
and not be really generic, and put it out there. Now, generally
the economists try to be generic because it’s a lot of work to try
and do that for individual areas and they will generally do those type reports for an individual
area on a fee for service. So they’ll do the general area
in order to show people, Hey, we’ve got knowledge in
and around this area, but if you want it very specific
for your local geography, that’s generally a paid service. and
so, you know, that’s good on them. That’s how they make their
money. And, I guess there’s a, there’s a whole bunch of work that sits
in around that. It’s not just, you know, spin, spin your wheels in it and
it comes out. It’s, it’s, you know, sometimes days or weeks
worth of effort to try and get those results
out in the market. So, now some of the indicators for, I guess yourselves to be
looking at as to whether or not, things are going well in the market.
So the property values themselves. So whether or not the prices are going up, whether or not their prices are going
down, if you’re actually watching those, you’ll see in your, in
your local geography, you’ll see what is actually
happening in a trend basis. Now that can be done I
guess typically on a, a median house value is typically how
most, indicators, work in that regard. Or most economists tended
to work on the median. Now the median is very different
to the average. Now the median. So if you have 10 sales, then
the median will be the 5th sale. Whereas an average is add up all 10
sales and then divide it by the number of sales. And so sometimes the media and
the average aren’t quite the same. Now most of your property economists, when we’re are talking to
the median side of things. Auction clearance rates is another great
indicator that people tend to use out there. Now I guess the challenge
with auction clearance rates is that there are some portions of
the country where auctions are very, very popular and other portions of the
country where it’s not very popular. So for example, Melbourne and Sydney
options are very, very popular, but in Queensland, far North Queensland,
Northern territory, et cetera, then they’re not so popular. And so if you’re using auction
clearance rates in and of themselves, then you want to be very careful
that you’re, that you’re looking at, I guess the geography that you’re
trying to interpret that with. Now the auction clearance rates is, is not necessarily, hey,
it’s sold on the day, but it’s sold within a reasonable
period of time under auction conditions that made that an
unconditional sale. So, you know, when a property market is hot, you’ll tend to see those auction
clearance rates very, very high. When the auction clearance rates
are a little bit colder, then, I guess it’s a good indication
that the market is slowing. Some other things to be mindful of I
guess there’s development approvals, which we’ll see, people like ourselves doing lots
of applications into council, but the approvals may not necessarily
actually result in construction. Sometimes that’s because the
market has worked against us. But if you look at the building
activity, so building approvals, this is how many of those
development approvals then turn into, I guess finished product. So if you’re
looking at your building activity, then if you see high levels of
building approvals, then you’ll, you’re going to see that we’re
in a very, very buoyant market. Things are actually going
really, really well. So a lot of the economists out there, people like CoreLogic and RP Data will
actually talk to dwelling approvals, as a regular statistic to
actually keep, keep an eye on it. So watch that for your particular, geography and demographic
and you’ll see that, that’s a good indicator if not just, have a drive around your local
area and see, you know, if, if we’re looking at the high end of town, you’re going to see cranes
and that sort of thing. If at the low end of town you’re
gonna see a lot of, sites, actually under construction. So, and you, so you don’t necessarily
have to have a formal, Hey, this is how many approvals are there.
But you’ll have a very good sense as to whether or not the economy is
actually moving in your direction just based on how much builders
you actually see in and around. A rental yields is also
a really good indicator. So as the supply is short, then rents tend to go up, when
the demand starts to go up. So you know, your rental
yields in comparison to I guess the property valuers also
a great indicator, vendor activity, So how many people are actually
putting stock on the market firstly. And then secondly, how many people are turning up
to open inspections and you know, going through the properties,
that sort of thing. You can get that from how many searches
are happening on a, on a property. You can get that from how many hits
are actually landing on the site? How many of those actually turn
into genuine inquiries and, when you’ve got something
in the market yourself, your particular agent will give you
those stats on your particular property. but you can also get those stats on
how the market is doing as a whole. also stock levels. So how much stock that is
actually competing with you
at any one point in time. Okay. So, if you’re trying to look very
granularly at some of these things, then, one of those, people
that I mentioned before, DSR data demand and supply ratio, that’s a subscription based service
that will actually measure things like, how much stock is
actually on market for you and actually give you
that as a report. Now, time on market is also a great indicator. So how long it’s actually sitting
there before it actually sells. One of the greatest indicators, if, if the time on market is relatively short, we are absolutely in a hot market.
if the time on market is long, then, you know, you could be in for a
little bit of a bumpy ride. So, and then vacancy rates,
if you’re looking at, I guess this comes along
with your rental yields, it’s a vacancy rates will
sit in and around that to, to give you an indication as to whether
or not there’s demand in the area. Now, going back to Hayden’s
question a little bit earlier, so where are we in the market now? I sent before that there
are a number of different, market economists out there
and they’ve all got slightly different versions of where
we are actually sitting. Okay. And it changes from time
to time. So rather than me, trying to quote all of them, what I’ve
chosen to do in this particular instance, is just used by way of example, Herron
Todd-White’s version of the clock, and give you some indicators
as to how and where we might be in different regions and
different geographies. So where we’re talking about housing
stock, now, I want to be very, very clear housing stock. Okay. We’ve
got a couple of different areas. So at the peak of the market, we’ve
got places like, Aubrey, Bathurst, Canberra, Dubbo, Sunshine
Coast, and Wodonga, okay. So Aubrey and Wodonga are both doing, well I guess it’s whilst technically
two cities is one, region. When we looking at the starting to
decline, we’ve got Balonne and Byron Bay. We’ve got Central Coast, Coffs
Harbour, Julong and Lismore. those are starting to decline,
so they’re still relatively high, but on the downward slope, ones that
are firmly in the declining market, the Gold Coast, Kalgoorlie, Newcastle, Southwest of Western Australia.
So that I guess as a geography, and the Southern Tablelands are
also, in that, in that range. Areas that are approaching the
bottom of the market. Broome, Illawarra and Geraldton, those that are
very firmly at the bottom of the market. We’ve got Alice Springs, we’ve got
Brisbane, Bundaberg, Darwin, Ipswich, Melbourne, Perth, Rockhampton,
Southern Highlands, Sydney, and Toowoomba. Now, as I said,
the bottom of the market, people can sit there for quite some time
before it actually starts to kickstart. And what you’ll see a number of times
is it starts to hit the recovery mode, and it may or may not have a false
start and will drop back down. And so, those ones that are
sitting there, right now, especially places like Sydney
and Melbourne, they, I guess, raced from the top down to the bottom.
And there’s indications right now. that they’re trying to do the start
of the recovery again. So it’s, they’re starting to kickstart
and then falling back and start into kickstart
and falling back. So I, I would say watch this space for,
for places like Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane in particular and Perth, I’m going to say has been a
sleeper for quite some time and I guess there’s indications
there that that might turn, I’m going to say in the
next 18 months or so. Those that are firmly in the
start of the recovery mode is Cairns, Gladstone, Mackay
, Port Headlands, Townsville, and the Whitsundays. So
Gladstone is one, I guess, that benefited from a
mining boom previously and a number of people invested
quite heavily there And, it dropped off very quickly. I guess
when the, the mining area dropped, those people have been sitting
there hurting for quite some time. I guess there’s good indication there that we might be on the
upward swing of that now, whether it gets back to the peaks
of before, very hard to tell, but at least it’s in that recovery mode. So those people that have been
holding on waiting for the recovery, a good signs for you guys. Rising
market. We’ve got Adelaide, Adelaide Hills, Barossa Valley, Emerald,
Harvey Bay, Karratha, Launceston, Mildura and Shepparton. So those guys are very
much in a rising market, those that are approaching the peak
of the market, Hobart and Tamworth. So Hobart is, I guess been
on an upward swing for, I guess a good 18 months 2 years, and has seen a lot of good
capital growth in that area. and then from there we’re back to the
peak of the market. Now. All of that, as I said, was houses. yet there is I guess also another,
not a clock to consider, which is I guess the unit market and the
unit market doesn’t necessarily reflect everything that was actually
happening in the house market because there are different drivers
that sit in around those things. So if we go through that same cycle again, some of the areas will
be relatively similar, but we’re gonna find some other areas
where it’s a significantly different. So at the peak of the market,
Aubrey and Wodonga again, Belfast and the Sunshine Coast,
all at the peak of the market, if you’re in the unit market, if
you’re in the starting to decline, so Ballan and Byron Bay, Geelong
Central Coast, Lismore and Coffs Harbor are all in the start to decline market in a declining market is Canberra,
Gold Coast, Calgary, Newcastle, Perth, WA, and the Southern Tablelands. Now you notice that one of
them, there was Canberra. Now Canberra I said before was, and I’m just gonna flip back to where
Canberra was in the house market. cause I know that that was, at the
peak of the market for the houses. But in the unit market, Canberra is, gee, I’ve just lost my place now.
Canberra is on the starting to decline. So there’s a really good indicator to
say, or, or sorry, really good evidence. The fact that different
area, sorry the same area can be in different parts of the
cycle for different product types. Approaching the bottom,
Broome, Illawarra and Geraldton and at the bottom of the market we’ve
got Adelaide Hills, Alice Springs, Barossa Valley, Brisbane, Bundaberg,
Darwin, Ipswich, Mackay, Melbourne, Rockhampton, Shepparton,
Southern Highlands, Sydney,
Toowoomba and Whitsundays. In the start of the recovery mode in
that unit market, we’ve got Adelaide, Cairns, , Gladston, Port
Headlands and Townsville. In the rising market section
we’ve got Dubbo, Harvey Bay, Karratha, Launceston, and
Mildura. Approaching the
peak is Hobart and Tamworth. And again, back to the peak
of the market being Wodonga, Bathurst and Sunshine Coast. So they’re the two market cycles
as predicted by Herron, Todd white. Now, as I said before, there are number of other people out there
that also have versions of the clock. So, I would not be using just one
of these as your indicator, so I would be researching multiple, making sure that everyone
is actually in alignment. So those multiple people again would
be Michael McKusick, Dr. Andrew Wilson, Herron, Todd White, which I
just mentioned, Core Logic, and the RP data sort of things,
the Australian property monitors and I guess key indicators
from DSR data and the like. So that’s kind of the,
the property clock guys, if you are a developer, one of the things that I’d
be very conscious of is understanding where your particular
project is at from a geography point of view, having a look at where
that is in the market cycle. If you’re at the bottom and
in the start to recovery mode, you might get some uplift from the
sheer capital gain because the, the the market is going
in your direction. Okay. I would not be relying on that in
order to create your profits. Be very, very clear. Do not rely on the property
clock to actually create your profits. Instead, you want to make sure that the
feasibility of your project stacks up, and that anything that happens as a result of the upswing in market just happens
to be cream. Conversely to that, I want to be looking at, the
property clock to say, well, if I’m at the peak of the
market in going into my project, then I need to be cognizant of the
fact that the market might drop and have an area of a fudge factor that, that sits in and around that
from my contingency point
of view to make sure that should the market go against me, that I’m still going to
be in a profitable state. And, you may change the percentages
that you’ve got in your contingency to factor that in and make sure that you
actually stress test your projects to say, what happens if the market comes
up 5%? What happens if it comes off 10%? What happens if it comes off
15%? know exactly where you, where that breaking point is and the
break even point of your project is before you actually pull the trigger
in it or in order in order to go live. if you don’t do that, what you could find is that you are getting
yourself into a world of hurt because you didn’t quite
pick the market correctly. Now Peter’s got a question. Are
townhouses considered units or houses? It’s good question, Peter. Unfortunately, townhouses are a little
bit of a gray area. and that the challenge there
is that every single state government captures a townhouse as a, from a demographic
point of view as a unit. So it’s actually considered a unit
from a statistical point of view. I really, really wish that they would actually
separate those as a product category type, but at every single state government
and that the title’s office in those state governments tend
to capture that as a unit. So, it hope it answers your question, but it doesn’t give you a lot
of granularity unfortunately. so you kind of get a little bit
of a lumping in and around that. So there you go folks. That is
property cycles and property clocks. I guess if you’ve got any
questions in and around this topic, now is the time to to reach out and
whilst I’m waiting for questions to come through, I’m just going to have
myself a little bit of a sip of water and also give you a little bit
of an indicator with regards to. some of the upcoming events that we’ve got in the end
around our property development
network community. So, for those of you who are based in
Melbourne, on December the 7th, which is next Saturday, we have
our very last meetup for the year. That is going to be, I guess using a buyer’s agent
to assist in your deal finding and actually understanding how
that is. We also have our regular, real deal coming through on that as well. That will be our Christmas
party for Melbourne. Sydney has already had the
last meeting for the year and already had their Christmas party. and Brisbane’s next event
is on December 21st. And because of how close it is and the
proximity it is to Christmas being only four days away, we’re not actually having
a formal meeting for Brisbane instead. That is only going to be
a pure Christmas party. and just, just a social event. Now, Sydney has already had the
last meeting of the year, so the next event for
Sydney will be January 25th. and we’ve got Ian Ugarte from Small is
the New Big, he’s going to be talking, about, rent per room and a number
of other different terminologies that sit in around that and how
you can actually maximize that, I guess from an income
cashflow perspective and how
you can actually use that. So anyone in Brisbane, that is for you, first month of the year. Sorry. Now, some questions that I’ve got coming
through Karen. Thank you so much. You’re welcome, Karen. No problems
at all. Paul says water? Yes, question mark mate. I had a Christmas party on Saturday
night and I had a Christmas party on, on Friday night. And so, yes, I’m very much
on the waters today, mate. So, although just the
way you challenge me, you tend to indicate
that I’m an alcoholic, but I can rest assured you that I am
not, Peter says so if it’s a unit, then, we should look at the property
clock for units, correct. Peter, that is absolutely correct.
So there you have it folks, as I can’t see any other
questions coming through. I want to thank you very much for, joining me once again for
another Sunday session. and I will join you again next
Sunday at five o’clock Brisbane time. until then. Bye for now folks.

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